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Nuclear Black Holes?
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Emrad



Joined: 12 Jan 2009
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Location: DM12

PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Nuclear Black Holes? Reply with quote

On my wanderings about the web I happened upon this page recently… It would seem the idea there, that there are black holes in the nuclei of atoms, falls in line with what I have believed for some time is going on.

Take a look: http://www.proetcontra.com/2009/08/31/black-hole-in-the-nuclei-of-an-atom/

Where I had heard it said that a black hole is a singularity with a point having no diameter, that is infinitely small where, at that tiny, immeasurable point gravity becomes infinite and time stops… I’m not a math expert but just reasoning through it, assuming the above to be true, it would seem that ANY amount of gravity focused at such a point, no matter how small an overall amount, would have an event horizon associated with it – would be a black hole, even if it were the seemingly miniscule amount of gravitation associated with just one atom.

Anyone think there could be something to this?

Emrad
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K



Joined: 14 Jan 2011
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Location: Florida

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emrad,

Nice to converse with you again. Your reasoning has a solid basis. each atom interacts actively with the quantum foam which translates EM energy from the virtual (not observable) state to the more or less observable state which we can measure. How else could electrons endlessly orbit the proton within adding energy externally?
Blackholes and whiteholes are macro events that must have their origins within the quantum plane. Their is simply not enough mass entering the event horizon to sustain or their existance. Hawkins seems to think that blackholes evaporate over time if not feeding, although that assumes that all information (mass) also vanishes which is not possible ( 1st law of physics: energy cannot be created or destroyed).
There is good reason to believe that all atoms contain a very small black or white hole that may explain the conjugate mirror effect currently used in optical physics. As you have already surmised the same physics math are involved in mapping EM field of an atom as mapping the EM field of a galaxy only the size of the numbers are different.
Are you experimenting again?
K
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Emrad



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

K wrote, “Are you experimenting again?”

Tinkering with radios, mostly… and, of course, always trying to keep learning. If I’ve learned something during the day, why then it’s been a good day, I figure.

Good to hear from you.

…Trying to find a website I looked at some time ago that had what looked like a paper someone did about a Yagi antenna designed to operate at optical frequencies… something about “gold nano rods suspended in a glass medium” or some such thing. What do they plan to use to feed the driven element, that’s what I want to know.

Anyhow, I recently lost all my bookmarks and the link to that site was one of them.

I’m sure I’ll find it again if it’s still on the internet.

Best wishes!

Emrad
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K



Joined: 14 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emrad,

Your interest in the yagi antennae system got me thinking about something I saw on an experimenters website.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/sclxmtr.htm
His site and experiments are extensive and very well documented. You may wish to construct and experiment with this transmitter as it has some very unusual properties.
It is highly directional by it can't be jammed or intercepted. The transmitted scalar wave penetrates even grounded metal (faraday cage).
Getting the laser like wave to become omnidirectional would be a feat that would have great value commercially.
I intend to persue this direction when my current experiment is finished.
Sorry I'm not much help with the yagi my main interest is in knew technologies.
K
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Emrad



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting picture... in appearance it looks like a helical yagi folded back on itself... if that makes any sense.

As for that paper... still searching.
I seem to remember reading something about how normal antenna length vs. frequency calculations (difficult enough at radio frequencies, let alone optical frequencies requiring an antenna too small to even see) break down at those scales… something having to do with atomic mass or whatever becoming a factor, so actual antenna length for light frequencies would be somewhat shorter than what the calculation would predict.

Emrad
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K



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emard,

The following id from Wikipedia:
In the case of electromagnetic radiation—such as light—in free space, the phase speed is the speed of light, about 3×108 m/s. For sound waves in air, the speed of sound is 343 m/s (1238 km/h) (at room temperature and atmospheric pressure). As an example, the wavelength of a 100 MHz electromagnetic (radio) wave is about: 3×108 m/s divided by 100×106 Hz = 3 metres.

Visible light ranges from deep red, roughly 700 nm, to violet, roughly 400 nm (430–750 THz) (for other examples, see electromagnetic spectrum). The wavelengths of sound frequencies audible to the human ear (20 Hz–20 kHz) are between approximately 17 m and 17 mm, respectively, assuming a typical speed of sound of about 343 m/s; the wavelengths in audible sound are much longer than those in visible light.

Frequency and wavelength can change independently, but only when the speed of the wave changes. For example, when light enters another medium, its speed and wavelength change while its frequency does not; this change of wavelength causes refraction, or a change in propagation direction of waves that encounter the interface between media at an angle

Not knowing much about yagi design I can surmize that the nano-crystal substrate is used at a specific resonant frequency emitter and probably have the lattice arranged to be highly unidirectional so that the emission power isn't wasted. It probably acts alot like a laser or gunn diode.
So what's the interest in yagi design?
K
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Emrad



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That’s precisely why I was wondering so about what they would use to drive the thing… at those frequencies the best resonators would have to be electrons orbiting atoms, correct? It left me wondering if it wasn’t a gag paper, you know, a funny for physicists, or something. The other thing you mentioned about light refraction due to the transition from one medium to another goes back, possibly, to the idea of black holes in atoms… if things happening in atoms are not only about fields but about them drawing in or contracting the fabric of space around them via gravitation, then it brings me to question again: could a block of glass, for example, have more space on the inside than what we would measure with a ruler on the outside… in other words, when light passes through the block of glass, could it be that the light (which appears to the outside observer to slow down on entering the glass) is actually continuing at light speed through a more concentrated area of space?

Something being bigger on the inside than on the outside... Doctor Who's TARDIS comes to mind!

Curious…

In response to your question: To get more RF energy to go in the direction of other stations with which I want to communicate, or at least listen to. A yagi, for anyone curious, is basically a half wave dipole antenna (the driven element) with what are known as parasitic dipoles or elements in front of and behind the active or driven element. To the rear of the driven element are reflectors, about 5% longer than the resonator. The ones ahead of the driven element are shorter and are known as directors. These have the effect of making the radiation pattern of the antenna directional… very useful for radiocommunication purposes. On a yagi only the driven element is directly powered by the transmitter… the parasitic elements interact electromagnetically, as opposed to a log periodic, for example, which can be very similar in appearance to a yagi. On a log periodic all of the elements are electrically connected to the radio, the advantage there being that you have an antenna that is very broad banded (which makes them great for things like TV reception) the resonant element becomes active… yagis on the other hand are generally narrow banded and operate as intended only over a narrow region of spectrum.

At present I only have one yagi for VHF high band & it has proven very useful.

With the equipment I have here the smallest yagi I would need would have roughly a six inch dipole (900 MHz) so calculations for optical frequencies are a bit beyond me! Smile

Emrad
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Emrad



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for getting a bit off topic.

You know, K, thinking about black holes I get to wondering. We're told the basics of why the event horizon appears where it does to an “outside”, or, distant observer, but if it were possible for an observer to follow the gravitational curve down past where the event horizon was calculated to be and survive, what would the observer see? Once past the event horizon it isn’t over, the acceleration continues, or so it is said. Would the observer see yet another event horizon ahead, or, perhaps an endlessly receding event horizon (figuring this possibility) because, no matter now fast the observer has gotten, there will always be room for 186,000 miles per second faster on a gravitational acceleration curve that progresses to infinity?

It makes me wonder, might the accelerating expansion of the universe we think we’re looking at actually be the by-product of an entire universe that is falling down the slope of a black holes gravity curve?

…Wondering…

Emrad
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K



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emrad,
It's impossible to say for sure what if anything, lays beyond an event horizon (EH). Hawkins says that 'spagification' occurs due to unequal forces on matter but no information (of the matter) is lost no matter what the process is, spagetification, liquifaction, plasmation, etc.
How it titilates the imagination endlessly to peer into the unknown and ask what if?
My imagination tells me that beyound the EH space is 'sucked' out of our atoms and we become very dense. Since we are traveling at the same rate, everything that entered the EH at the same time as we did, should appear the same... providing that our eyes survived the ordeal. Since light cannot escape the black holes grip it should be safe to assume the those who fall in are traveling backward in time to some degree. If there is a destination (where) is another good question.
On the other hand there maybe a more practical reason for black holes, maybe they are a universal garbage cans for bad souls?
How the BH begins and sustains its structure is a real head scratcher.
Maybe they just are because they can be. Like stars, no reason, no purpose, no design, no will, or maybe they're just acne on the skin of the universe?
For whatever the reason, I'm glad they are there and can throw things into them.
What does your imagination tell you?
K
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Emrad



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

K Wrote: “What does your imagination tell you?”

Well, I don’t know if I can say it tells me anything but sure seems to run heavy on parallels and precedent when it summons a seemingly endless stream of questions!

For example, thinking about the expansion of the universe, I have considered stuff like this: a fan, running in a closed room. Now we toss in some weightless glitter so we can watch how the air moves. We’ll likely see the air converging towards the fan, only to get spit out the other side at some maximum velocity, but when we look more carefully we see that all the air in the room is moving as a result of this motion. A massive cycle is set up that involves air in every part of the room… like a helicopter taking off or hovering near ground and tossing up dust, it reveals that once driven down by the rotors the air flows out, then up and around to form a big circle that converges towards the rotors once again. Considering that kind of thing, I have come to question if all the things in the universe we think of as having gravity, may actually be directly connected to the expansion of the universe that has been observed. As if nature, having converging space in and around matter and it’s gravity fields is somehow counterbalanced by expansion of space everywhere else.

…Just an idea…

Emrad
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K



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emrad,
Good analogy, the universe is one. All the parts move and recycle but the total energy is always conserved.
The nature of gravity is still mystery. No one can definitively say if it's a pushing or pulling force, the current math model happens to fit the effects we observe. Your question might be answered if we could observe a gravitational effect near the edge of the expanding universe. The presumption is that gravity is a product of the expansion or perhaps time itself. What would gravity be without time? I would think it might resemble a magnet, a radio wave at zero frequency, frozen in time as we see it.
Gravity it seems, is very similar in most respects. It appears to have no direction flow of itself, yet we see the effect of its presence on objects that produce a distinct unidirectional movement. Does this mean there is a black hole at the center of our planet? or is this effect produced by a 'skin effect' near the surface? The current math model is unrevealing as to which it may be. As we head toward the center of the earth the force of gravity becomes less and less, perhaps due to equalization of forces but that would mean that it is a skin effect otherwise the pull would become greater as we approached the center.
In any case it is a real head scratcher.
K
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Emrad



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

K wrote: “Does this mean there is a black hole at the center of our planet?”

As suggested above, I would tend to suspect the black holes are somewhere in the center of all the atoms that make it up, in which case, the effect would be cumulative. If one could get to some hollow space in the center of the earth I think one would float weightless, but evidence of the cumulative gravitations would still be there in the form of tidal forces pulling outward in all directions and I believe it would be possible to measure these stresses.

With all this talk of event horizons… I got to thinking again… OK, the universe is evidently expanding, and the farther out we look, the faster it is moving away from us as evidenced by the progressively deeper red shift. Is it possible that the universe is so big that it extends outward beyond where light can reach us?… is it possible for there to be universe and space so far away that it is moving away from us faster than light? If so, would that not be what basically amounts to an “outer” event horizon, of sorts?

It is my belief that it is possible to go faster than light – black holes show us this is possible (I think Einstein was just trying to tell us how it could not be done by using rockets, and such).through contracting space… if the universe, and its space is also expanding AND accelerating, then if the universe’s real estate stretches out far enough... logically, there should be an outer event horizon surrounding the entire "known" universe.

Emrad
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K



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emrad,

Re: BH of atoms
When the LHC fires up you may get your wish. If BH of atoms can accumulate first presuming that all electrons can be stripped off and held at bay then smash alot of nuclei into one another with enough force to over come their strong force, one might 'see' a nano black hole(NBH). If it lasts for only a femto-second it would suck in all the equipment used to produce it, unless the effect was predicted and a containment field made ready for such an effect. Even if this could be produced the expense to create and contain the NBH would not be worth the effort, the useable energy produced would not equal the the energy used... in terms of dollars.

Re: Middle earth gravity gradient
The only indication one would get if all gravitational forces became equal at the center of the earth is lack of direction and velocity but this still doesn't tell us whether the effect of gravity is a pulling or pushing force.

Re: Edge of the universe
There are a number of things that puzzle me. There appears to be nothing beyond the edge of our local universe (LU) that we can see. Does this mean that the big bang has and is creating space and time within nothingness? or is it that that the nothingness we can't see is another dimension that our LU is encrouching upon or is it that the big bang initiated a time/light shock wave that rides on the edge of the ever expanding LU that prevents us from seeing anything beyond and the only indication we have that something is out there is that the outer edge of the LU is accelerating and it shouldn't be. It's accelerating because it's being attracted to the mass it's expanding into which we can't see.

Re: Superluminal speeds
The longditudinal wave discovered by Tesla demonstrates a speed of 4.5 times that of light speed. Current demonstrations in the lab of quantum entanglement show instantainious changes at a given distance as if there was no distance.
Your quite right Uncle Albert was refering to objects of mass cannot possibly travel as fast or faster than the speed of light. What he does not say is if you want to travel at light speed you must first translate the mass to light. If you want to travel multiple times faster that light then translate the light to longditudinal waves or envoke quantum entanglement. All of which are still beyond our current technology.

K
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Emrad



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what little I’ve been able to figure out about what Hawking was saying about black holes, it is about the observer’s perspective as to what is observed to be going on with them (if I understood any of it correctly). What I got out of it was what would allow for an outside observer to see something destroyed through tidal forces as it falls in… not necessarily the same thing the observer falling in would see.

From this it would seem to me that the concept of the “Event Horizon” is kind of an imaginary thing… An observer traveling towards the black hole at half the speed of light and another observer holding a stationary position relative to the black hole should see the event horizon of that same black hole in different places, yes?

Likewise, if we were able to start off towards the outer universe, as our velocity increased towards light speed, the sphere of the observable universe, I’m thinking, should shift, to appear to stretch out ahead of us and appear to close in behind.

In other words, if we watched a light ship take off at light speed it may appear to us to translate into pure light energy… not necessarily the same for any observers on the ship, who would probably see our world disappear from their observable universe.

Maybe it’s just my imagination working overtime! Smile

Another thing, I did a bit of reading RE black holes and white holes… was astounded by the idea that a black hole and a white hole can essentially be the same phenomenon.
Am I wrong for thinking such a thing has a precedent or parallel in nature in what we observe as positive and negative electrical charges, and north and south magnetic poles?


Emrad
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K



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emrad,
Your right about perspective and the observer. All that we observe is filtered through our eyes which only recieve a small portion of the total spectrum of light and then it is further filtered through our mental frame of reference. What we see is mostly an illusion, what we measure is closer to fact of the illusion. When we are able to experience the effect first hand it becomes a truth and a fact which is hard to refute.
This is why the two observers see the same EH but the illusion appears different to them. No big mystery.
Re: B&W holes
The quantum foam (QF) is composed of B&W holes popping into and out of existance at a very high rate. Their persistance is what constitutes the fabric of space-time which is why there is no such thing as empty space.
QF or zero point energy is the energy that is left at absolute zero degrees, Qf is uneffected by temperature extremes but is effected by any and every artificial pulse of voltage that we produce. From our small biological voltages to supernova, each one disturbs the QF and it answers back in like manner.
Fringe science is attempting to tap a small fraction of this constant supply of energy, so far with little tangible result.
I think it was Wheeler to calculated the latent energy in a cubic centimeter of QF. A fraction of that amount could light your entire home.
K
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