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abortion
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Guest






PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:30 pm    Post subject: abortion Reply with quote

A woman's right. And thankfully so.
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Rachael
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't agree. Life begins at conception, and abortion is murder.

Laughing Rachael
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MalcQV



Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not going to comment one way or the other. However "Guest" you are a complete... well if you cannot be bothered to subscribe or give any details then I guess you are just a Troll. Go bother someone else.
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Bermudagirl



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 1533
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
A woman's right. And thankfully so.


Guest, I totally disagree. I think, a woman has also the right to choose the kind of contraception. This is the kind of decision to make, BEFORE sexual intercourse.

That reminds me of my momīs abortion. She had it, when I was too young to figure out, what was going on. One day she and my dad left the house, telling us about the abortion after they came back. I would have loved to have another sister or brother. I donīt understand, why she did that. Maybe because 3 kids are enough? I donīt know and I am completly unconfortable with this decision.
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MalcQV



Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:17 am    Post subject: look at how this thread is growing... Reply with quote

..and I am contributing again. Adminette, my suggestion is to delete this thread. This person is just trolling see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll for definition.

MalcH
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adminette



Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 115
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I don't think they are trolling... read Tim's latest journal entry:
http://www.timallen.com/journal/entry.php?id=17
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Rachael
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim technically started this discussion. It's his site . . .

Laughing Rachael
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Guest






PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rachael Lane wrote:
I don't agree. Life begins at conception, and abortion is murder.

Laughing Rachael


Hi Rachael,

Many, many people agree with your definition. When life begins teeters on the philosophical, yet is very rooted in science. What is life? Maybe that needs to be addressed before we can begin (and is a whole other thread).

Nontheless, I claim that the potential for life begins at conception. The womb offers "life-support" for the developing fetus, but like the comatose patient, doesn't stand much of a chance without it.

Abortion, then, is more like killing than murder.
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Guest






PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bermudagirl wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
A woman's right. And thankfully so.


Guest, I totally disagree. I think, a woman has also the right to choose the kind of contraception. This is the kind of decision to make, BEFORE sexual intercourse.

That reminds me of my momīs abortion. She had it, when I was too young to figure out, what was going on. One day she and my dad left the house, telling us about the abortion after they came back. I would have loved to have another sister or brother. I donīt understand, why she did that. Maybe because 3 kids are enough? I donīt know and I am completly unconfortable with this decision.


Hi Bermudagirl,

I agree with you that contraception should be used to prevent unwanted pregnancies. It is morally repugnant to use abortion as a method of birth control. But sometimes mistakes are made. Should a woman be forced to bring to full-term an unwanted child? Wouldn't it be better to terminate the fetus than to have it develop under such circumstances?

I'm sure it was difficult for your mother to terminate that pregnancy. But she had her reasons. If you are comfortable, consider talking to her about it. It's important.
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Bermudagirl



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 1533
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't it be better to terminate the fetus than to have it develop under such circumstances?

Guest, for this reason there is the possibility of giving the baby up to adoption.

I wouldnīt wanna put a baby into this world, if I woulndīt at least be 100% financially secure.
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Guest






PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bermudagirl wrote:
Wouldn't it be better to terminate the fetus than to have it develop under such circumstances?

Guest, for this reason there is the possibility of giving the baby up to adoption.

I wouldnīt wanna put a baby into this world, if I woulndīt at least be 100% financially secure.



Adoption is an option many women chose. But under what conditions? I suspect most adoptions, at least in the U.S. today, are by underage, unwed women still living at home. The choice has ultimately been made by her parents.

Consider the effect on the fetus of carrying to term an unwanted pregnancy. In many instances, the woman doesn't know she's pregnant until several weeks along. During that time, perhaps she drinks or smokes or exposes herself (and the fetus) to other enviromental contaminents. Once she learns of her unwanted pregnancy, her mental state is one of continual stress and anxiety (especially if she's young and living at home) and again the fetus is exposed to damaging elements (intravenous adrenaline is not healthy). Is this fair to the developing fetus? Are these the conditions under which to bring a child into the world? What of that child's fate?

You make an excellent point about being 100% financially secure before putting a baby into the world. I remember reading somewhere that it costs about $300,000 to take a child from birth to 18 years. That's roughly $16,500 a year.
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Bermudagirl



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 1533
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, I never would have thought, that a topic could bring up such emotions in me!

1. I would like to know, how law in USA rules the abortion issue. Here in Austria it is legal in the first 3 months of pregnancy. How about other countries? Do you have something like "The pill afterwards", as we call it?

2. I would like to mension, that this is not an attack against women, who already had an abortion, this is just an opinion of someone, who doesnīt have children. Familiy means something to me, I will wait for the right guy to have a baby with, but this is another topic.
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lg
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 7:55 am    Post subject: decisions Reply with quote

Tim mentioned 'discussion' about abortion, which is pro and con, not either/or. In that spirit:

There is the tired, but true, cliche about 'walking a mile' in someone elses' shoes. When did we become the judge and jury of anyone elses' life?...What is right for them, or 'allowable', according to our personal beliefs? In Canadiennes' post about terrorists, she introduced a different point of view which I had not entertained. I grew in understanding, from her post. Such is Life. If we can step back a little and hear what someone else is saying, we are often enlightened, and we are greater for it.

There are so many instances where termination IS thought-worthy; let's say your 13 year old daughter is raped by a serial killer and becomes pregnant. Let's say your 17 year old neice slips up one time, and her genious will not go to college, because she will be a single parent. Let's say a drug saturated adolescent breaks into your house, and decides to rape your mother while you're at school. Let's say your village is being burned, your family has been killed, and on their way out, the soldiers decide to gang rape you. Let's say. There are so many scenarios here, we cannot begin to know them all. Most especially, we are not to judge them. Walk a mile, indeed.

Adoption is not always the 'fix'. Sometimes, yes. But not always, and therefore, a 'blanket' statement cannot cover it. Perhaps the answer would be for all of the people who are against a females' right to decide to automatically put their names on the adoption list to bring up all these children? After all, putting your Self where you say your beliefs are is no big deal, right? If the number of anti-abortionists were on such a list, there would be no unwanted children. This is a true fact. Walk a mile...

Ideally, there would never be one unwanted child in this world. No preteen, teenager, or woman would ever have to make such a decision. Until that happens, females AND males need to be responsible for their physical actions. Sex without commitment (and that has many forms) is only a physical thing; like eating when you're hungry, it's not emotional or spiritual or mental. It is an animalistic instinct. When so many people don't even spay or neuter their pets responsibly, what makes us think we are better than that 'small' responsible decision? Next time you see a stray animal, think about our pregnant children and young adults. Many of them are equally lost, and hardly in a better situation than the starving dog, with starving puppies following her. I wouldn't wish that on another dog, much less unwed mothers. Walk a mile with that stray...

I have always been taught that the soul enters the fetus at 'quickening'. (Such a mystical term) It always made sense to me; the uterus is as small or large as the fetus, at all times. Though this embryo begins wriggling about very early, the mother cannot feel anything. She should be able to, if mass and movement applied. Then, all of a sudden, thump!...the quickening. Who is to say what is going on in the spiritual world, as FACT? Certainly not me.

I believe, with ALL of my soul, we should not use abortion as birth control, but I also believe we should not condemn, nor have to endure, that which is not Sacredly held, nor given. That covers a whole lot of territory. And you have to walk a lot of miles to cover it. L.
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Bermudagirl



Joined: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 1533
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LG, I respect your opinion, but I have to say I am NOT judging anyone here. I just take my right to convey my opinion.

OK, I agree, rape is an instance and I am glad you brought it up. Nevertheless there are mothers, that were raped and had the baby, because they called it not fair to the fetus.

Again: I am NOT judging anyone here, and if anyone feels so, I apologize 1000x. I feel for women, who are being forced to make a decision about life and I donīt ever want to be in this curcumstance.
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K.C.



Joined: 25 Jan 2003
Posts: 109
Location: Tucson, Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, keep in mind this is from a woman who had her first child at 35, and was told to have no more. 14 monthe after the birth of my son, I found myself with that blasted early tester, and discovered I was going to have another baby.

We had used TWO forms of birth control, and I was not happy with the state of things. I knew it would put my life in danger, and I was 37, a little old to be chasing two kids.

I was also married and my husband has a great job. And I STILL considered ending the pregnacy. The only reason I didn't was because I feel if my husband had married a younger woman he would have loved to have filled the house several times over with kids.

I did'n't forgo the abortion because of any idea that life begins at conseption. I did it because of how my husband's face shined when I told him another baby was coming.

Later when he found out that I kept the baby when I shouldn't have, he was livid.

I had my daughter, and two seconds later my tubes were tied. (I asked the doctor if she knew how to do macrome'. I wasn't going to take any chances.

Now folks this was MY choice. It wasn't anyone elses'. And it shouldn't be anyone elses, not even the father's. My body, my choice.

Keep in mind this is from someone who should have gone the other way. MY CHOICE!
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