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lg
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:57 am    Post subject: fear/stupidity Reply with quote

Ok, K.C., if you insist...still...(working on that half empty/half full equation):
Pregnant, hot, and a moron blowing his horn; what idiot would take on a woman like that? So your very situation was your 'protection'...

I am reminded, hearing these two stories of Kates' and K.C.s', of a news video that absolutely captured, for me, the difference in stupidity and basic principal that overides the fear factor: Remember the riots in China? The student carrying a valise, wearing dark pants, white shirt, the tanks going through the streets of the city? He stood totally still as the tank came toward him. Later, it was said he was killed, but that moment is frozen in my mind, concerning the peace of knowing. I remember his stand, to this day, all the way over here, all the down here in the South, all the way into my home via TV, all the way into my heart. As I previously wrote, remarkable things can happen in a moment of decision. It is not the presence of fear, it is the absence of belief, I feel, that creates the coward or the hero. K.C. and Kate, you were brave, no matter your fear, or your 'stupidity'. L.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:31 pm    Post subject: Fear Reply with quote

If you do not mind me interrupting your discussion. There are some things we have all learned about fear without any textbooks.

Fear seems to be an emotion that can be with or without basis. The ones that have basis can be considered to be waning beliefs. Those positives that more than a few times went awry and harm occurred. Been there done that ended in a problem and now it becomes fear.

It can also occur with fears that a problem might exist if something is tried. Sometimes this is very hard to overcome. The above happens. Sometimes it will be overcome. How many fear an embarrassing moment? Having embarrassed myself enough times I have to say too late for that fear. Laughter is good.

Most of the fears I have seen with people have some basis in reality whether the person realized it or not. It seems fear just needs to be put into perspective of the whole picture. With simpler ones, a few more times of that same type of situation with some tangible success or at least no problems occurring and the fear can subside.

Fearing the possible results if not handled well it might not be considered that stupid, in the heat of the moment and in certain situations, to defend your home and especially yourself from a burglar with a knife. Saying, "Pretty please" probably would not have helped. The police and self-defense experts can help with alternative solutions.

Getting out of a car to talk to a trucker might not have been the best solution. How much traffic was in the roadway where you were? Did a stop light keep cars back at that moment? Was there an occassion, especially on the news or from a friend, which showed a bad outcome involving a trucker in close proximity?

lg, are you talking about the, excuse the spelling, Tienamen Square gentleman? Didn't he have white bag-like pieces in his hand? I always thought of it as the regular person just grocery shopping that finished his shopping with a picture of the century.

Thanks for your time.
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K.C.



Joined: 25 Jan 2003
Posts: 109
Location: Tucson, Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Guest I am embarrassed to admit that there was a lot of traffic, and my getting out of my car to read the trucker the riot act did hold up a long line of cars waiting to turn left. And no, I hadn't had a bad experince with a trucker. But I do know how scary a lot of truckers can get. My grandfather was one, and he had a lot of fellow truckers that he worked with, and for, I would NOT want to meet in a dark alley.

Thank you Linda for thinking that was protection. I would like to think I was thinking of my unborn child. I wasn't. I was letting hormones take over, and my temper to guild me.
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lg
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 4:38 am    Post subject: fear Reply with quote

Yes, that was the photo I was talking about, and you are right, it was shopping bags he held; in my mind, it still a valise (?)...what courage.
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 6:49 pm    Post subject: Trucker chat Reply with quote

What would we do without those hormones!

Thanks for your time.
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joalis



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 1155

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 2:11 pm    Post subject: I notice a pattern Reply with quote

Some people are saying they fear things that arent an immediate threat, like bad things happening to their family, or falling in love again. These are more like worries than heart pounding, adrenaline pumping fears. To consider them "fears" gives them more intensity than they deserve. A worry is like a reluctance to accept uncertianty. I think things like this aren't worth something as intense as "fear".
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lg
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 5:27 am    Post subject: fear Reply with quote

Joalis, I rather disagree with the worry/fear position. Some of the worst fears are imagined, and worry is the greatest seed I know for those. They become real in ways difficult to explain. Inaction is fear. It results from all of the 'what ifs' in life. It becomes a paralyzing fear, versus a tangible one we can actually do something about. Worry is the seed and core of 'wormwood', I think.

I'd much rather deal with a real thing, than something my mind has whipped up into a lather. Those suds can't be easily removed as they're all mine, one bubble at a time, versus someone elses...no middle ground, save faith, you know? So faith has to become active, and that is where many of us find ourselves after a lifetime of worry...rediscovering faith. Like any building, faith as a foundation takes time to sift through the sticks, stones, and air bubbles, to get to the real thing. I don't think its possible without ultimate total surrender, and as I've written before, I think Surrender is the most difficult action a human will ever encounter.
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joalis



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 1155

PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 8:20 am    Post subject: fear Reply with quote

I understand what you are saying, but can't relate to it. It's hard for me to imagine intense fear coming from worries about 'what if'.

I interpret things different than a lot of people, so forgive me if I'm a bit off.

Surrender is a passive acceptance of things beyond our control. That doesn't seem so hard to me. Everything within our control is doable, as long as we know how to do it. (I want to know how to improve my memory!)

I'm not much on referincing famous words and poems, but that prayer one about serenity was spot on. I can't remember it word for word (I have a horrible memory) but you know which one I mean?
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lg
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 6:17 am    Post subject: Response Reply with quote

Yep, St. Francis' words about having courage to change things, serenity to know what cannot be changed, and the wisdom to know the difference.

For a visual on my view of true surrender (and I mean, TRUE..all capitals) imagine yourself a quarter of a mile from Niagra Falls. You're swimming like hell, you're screaming for help, you're hearing the rush of the water getting louder and louder. Please, God, No! This can't be the way I die! I'm so afraid! Kicking and screaming, are you. Then, the falls just take you in and you experience a once in a lifetime thing. You live or die, depending the the way you fall and where you land...both out of your control. That covers how tightly Surrender is fought, and how close to the edge I have to get before really surrendering, and understanding its okay to just let go. I think its a difficult soul experience, putting it mildly. True surrender is accomplished, I feel, only when there is no residual debris, and all that is left is gratitude.

Have you ever had a child critically injured? Or ended up where you NEVER thought you'd be? Or loved so hard you thought you might die, if not returned? Or prayed so hard for a miracle, with all odds against you? These things produce worry for me, as well as the need to Surrender. (Capital S.) Would they for you? Thanks... L.
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joalis



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 1155

PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 1:28 pm    Post subject: fear Reply with quote

You mean no residual debris after the reason for the fear is over? In that case you can have fear and still have surrender.

The items in your list have varying degrees of scariness. If I had a critically injured child or was headed for a waterfall, I'd be afraid, most definately.
The other things dont seem like anything I would worry about.
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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2005 5:47 am    Post subject: Response Reply with quote

Hmm. Sometimes the sublime is difficult to narrow into language.

By 'debris', I mean you emerge on the other side, and that particular 'fear' is wiped totally out of your soul. There is freshness, and you view it with different eyes. In a way, you become impervious to that one thing. But, Joalis, life is full of one things, so true surrender takes as long as it takes. It is the stuff of which the sages have always spoken, the stuff we go 'Ahh' when hearing, but do not really grasp until having it ourselves. I don't know if I've expressed it correctly...

How do you others guys feel about these things J. and I are talking about? How do you relate? L.
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Canadienne



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:47 am    Post subject: Surrender Reply with quote

I think "surrender" is enterpreted very differently by different people. To some it might mean, "Oh, I give up. I guess I'll just curl up and die now." To others it might mean surrendering the moment to the will of God.

To me it means "letting go", and I mean letting go completely. Not just in terms of actually reacting to a situation, but in terms of fearing or worrying about it. Really, really letting go.

Much easier said than done. I know.
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joalis



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:15 pm    Post subject: lg Reply with quote

What did you mean by this?

It is not the presence of fear, it is the absence of belief, I feel, that creates the coward or the hero.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:43 pm    Post subject: Fear derailed Reply with quote

When you see someone lending a helping hand with a difficult situation. Sometimes, however, the fear has to subside enough to notice. It can be noticed, and thanks are stronger.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Need to mention sometimes it makes the house cleaner.
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