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the observer is qualified as part of the experiment

 
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TimAllen



Joined: 28 Oct 2002
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:25 am    Post subject: the observer is qualified as part of the experiment Reply with quote

Recently I read (but am very frustrated at losing the material) a way of inquiry where the observer is qualified as part of the experiment. Kind of bio physics of some sort…. Help!!!
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Howiregi



Joined: 23 Nov 2008
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Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schrödingers Cat? Where the observer is part of the experience?

Regina from Germany
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Klatu
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not enought information to go on Tim, you better find that article buddy.

Thought #1: FROM OBSERVER IN THE QUANTUM EXPERIMENT
The logical extension of any possibility leads to the further conclusion that the nature of existence at the time of the Experimenter's choice is not dictated by anything in existence prior to that choice. Existence in all of its glory can be explained only as the result of many choices, brought about by an unknown mechanism connected in some manner to the choice itself.

Thought #2: FROM THE MOST BEAUTIFUL EXPERIMENT
In QT circles, this phenomenon is known as the “measurement problem.” It’s also an ontological dilemma for many people. To my thinking, it seems a simple enough fact that everything we know about anything in this universe is a direct result of observation, for how could we “know” anything otherwise? From that perspective, it also makes sense that an observer (like, for instance, a human) will have an effect on any observable with which it interacts (like, for instance, a photon).

To quote one of my favorite physicists, Erwin Schrodinger, “Subject and object are only one. The barrier between them cannot be said to have broken down as a result of recent experience in the physical sciences, for this barrier does not exist.”

K
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Klatu
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim,

As a new Dad all three of you were observers and participants in the common miracle of life... birth. All three have experienced the same event in the same time and space, yet all three have a different 'take' of what happened due to their previous frame of reference.
Are these observers disqualified because they have different information about the same event? Are they disqualified because they participated in the event? Did the event change just because they observed it?
Then, at least logically... observers are participants in the event, which makes them part of the event. This creates a shared experience which is a common frame of reference for all observers of similar events.
Does observing an event change the event... only if energy (whatever that is) is added or subtracted from what is being observed or more to the point measured. The act of observing neither adds or subtracts energy from the event but, in order to observe you must participate.

What are your thoughts?

K
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Beau Goldly



Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: the observer is qualified as part of the experiment Reply with quote

TimAllen wrote:
Recently I read (but am very frustrated at losing the material) a way of inquiry where the observer is qualified as part of the experiment. Kind of bio physics of some sort…. Help!!!


Material can be found in any hotel room where a Gideon has been.
A bio-physics relational interaction where body-mind-spirit serves to validate original premise:

1) Believe Jesus' words to be true -

a) Exist with God in physical world as long as it exists, then,
b) Exist with God forever

2) Deny validity of Jesus' words -

a) Exist forever without God
b) Die - with no chance to invalidate or validate premise

Every human born has unique qualifications requiring they be part of experiment. Free will, free choice, but no free meal.
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Klatu
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim,

The only other source of information I have on this particular subject is in "The Tao of Physics" by Fritjof Capra.
I found it in our bathroom library... of all places.
This book is a good read. He attempts to point out the similarities between eastern religious philosophies and quantum phyics.
Consider for a moment, the very subtle energy levels at the quantum level compared to the energy levels produced by any biological brain, then try to convince yourself what you think has no effect of anything else. For those are good scientists and cannot bring themselves to believe in God, this realization should be a good enough reason to pray and be prayerful.
A pebble in a pond has a powerful effect beyond m*v.

K
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Fuzzy Dice



Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Posts: 28

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Recently I read (but am very frustrated at losing the material) a way of inquiry where the observer is qualified as part of the experiment. Kind of bio physics of some sort."

Could this possibly involve someone tripping and falling into their experiment?
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LadyHawke



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you run over Schroedinger's cat or did Schroedinger's cat run over you? Wink
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LadyHawke



Joined: 25 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But seriously, folks. I heard somewhere that when we aren't observing at all, the particles are just out there doing their thing. It is when we choose to view the particular particle in a particular way that we can either view it as a particle or as a wave.

The waves are usually particles that have been "sliced" or broken up as it passes through the peep hole for observation. That is why we see the wave instead of the particle. When it has not, we see the particle.

Now my head is spinning. Anybody got some aspirin?

We'll just have to watch Big Bang Theory and let Sheldon explain it to us.
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Fuzzy Dice



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schroedinger's cat experiment states:

"Nothing will claw the %*&@!# out of you like a cat being stuffed into a cardboard box."
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achristmasstory



Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 230

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:33 pm    Post subject: Re: the observer is qualified as part of the experiment Reply with quote

TimAllen wrote:
Recently I read (but am very frustrated at losing the material) a way of inquiry where the observer is qualified as part of the experiment. Kind of bio physics of some sort…. Help!!!


Maybe this?
Some observations on a Popperian experiment concerning observation http://ideaexchange.timallen.com/posting.php?mode=quote&p=44771
Summary In several places Popper describes a little experiment in which an audience is given the non-specific command Observe! He draws a number of conclusions from this experiment, in particular that observation takes place in the presence of theoretical problems, questions, hypotheses or points of view. The paper argues that while Popper's experiment is instructive, it hardly supports the strong conclusions he draws about the theory-dominance of observation in science. In particular, it is argued that talk of principles of selection which guide us to relevant observations, rather than the host of irrelevant observations of the naive inductivist, is misleading. Rather, it is the goals, aims, motives or interests of an observer that guide observation and these need not always involve a theoretical component.
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achristmasstory



Joined: 14 Feb 2003
Posts: 230

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:46 pm    Post subject: Re: the observer is qualified as part of the experiment Reply with quote

TimAllen wrote:
Recently I read (but am very frustrated at losing the material) a way of inquiry where the observer is qualified as part of the experiment. Kind of bio physics of some sort…. Help!!!


Try this link:
http://www.naturalworldhealing.com/benveniste-field-effect-etc.htm

and this link http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/cosmo/lectures/lec08.html

I found from searching the "Observer Effect in quantum physics" in the first link.
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achristmasstory



Joined: 14 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: the observer is qualified as part of the experiment Reply with quote

TimAllen wrote:
Recently I read (but am very frustrated at losing the material) a way of inquiry where the observer is qualified as part of the experiment. Kind of bio physics of some sort…. Help!!!


Just a thought. Your question reminds me of all experiments of observation. To me the observer is always a part of the experiment. How can it be otherwise. Premise: A couple of years ago aerial photos of an isolated tribe of people in South America hit the internet stating they are some of the last people untouched by modern man. When in truth, they no longer were untouched. They were aware of the planes. There is no way to find civilizations untouched by modern man and keep them that way. The observer, intentionally or not, has effected them.
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Mike Larson



Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 5:23 am    Post subject: Quantum Mechanics Reply with quote

William Joseph Bray has a very good book "Quantum Physics, Near Death Experiences, Eternal Consciousness, Religion,and the Human Soul".
The title pretty much covers what is explained in the book.
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